And Now a Word From Our League Administrators…

Ms. Netiquette,

Time for sharing tea and some information. So please grab a cup of your favorite brew and join me. :)

Concerning the letter from “Loves Pogo AND Her League” in the July 2 column and your answers: I find there might need to be some clarification and correction to information given.

First let me say that I belong to a league which is always friendly and courteous to others. I have hosted thousands of tournaments and am currently an Administrator for a league. All Pogo rooms are open to the public and as a league it is our responsibility to make sure that we do not violate the Pogo Terms of Service as members of Pogo.

[Ms. Netiquette: just for clarification – Myleague and Cases refer to two sites that help organize and promote leagues and tournament play]

However the the answers you gave on questions 2 and 3 need additional clarification from a league standpoint. First, even if there are tournament rooms for a game it might not be possible to play in them as a league due to rules in place by Cases regarding room rights. If a tournament room is listed with an existing league you cannot just go in and host a tourney without going through proper procedures. Moving to another room other than the room you are playing in as suggested in item 3 might not be possible for the same reason.

There are certain rules that must be applied as a league under the Cases umbrella. Below I’ve listed the one that pertains to questions 2 and 3 as found on the Cases Room Rights Listing Site:

Before hosting in a new room, you are required to contact the Admin staff of all Leagues that have a listing for the room in the MyLeague Room Listing and still have usage rights for that room. This is because it is important to maintain open and friendly dialogue with other Admins who use the same rooms as you.

There are set rules for getting rights on the Myleague site to host in a room which must be followed. Since there are over 2,000 different leagues under Cases/Myleague, some leagues do share rooms with a share agreement. But can you imagine if a league just went in and played in rooms at will? Imagine what problems could occur. In addition to the Cases leagues there are other gaming sites that have leagues on Pogo so there has to be some structure or utter chaos would ensue.

I agree some leagues give all leagues a bad name. However, all leagues are not the same. The ones that grow and thrive are friendly courteous Pogo Players first and foremost. The people are always polite, friendly, and include non-members in the fun as much as possible. You cannot grow or thrive without new members. After all, if you alienate the non-members in the room you will never get new members.

Thank you for letting me shed some additional information on why leagues use or don’t use certain rooms.

I always look forward to your column and your sound advice.

A Long Time League Administator and Pogo Lover

Dear Nettie

While you gave accurate information to “Loves Pogo AND Her League”, I feel that more complete information is needed for non-league players to fully appreciate what League Admins (especially in new leagues) go through on a daily basis just to run a league for their friends and maintain room rights with Case’s Ladder.

So let’s get out the good china and have a plain ol’, straight up discussion. Fancy some White Tea with Blueberry?

Case’s is one of the biggest gaming leagues; but there are others. I have been a non-league player, a league player, a host, and an owner of a league, so I know all sides of this nightmare.

A tournament MUST be played in every room claimed by a league at least one time per week for a league to maintain their claim on a room. A successful tournament – not just a game put into the league schedule and later canceled or moved (in fact, moving an unsuccessful tournament is against Case’s policy… they’re to be deleted entirely). People actually have to show up to it; it has to be run; and someone has to win or there’s a two-way tie (happens a LOT). Only by completing a tournament through Case’s proprietary tourney system does it count.

I’ve personally caught an Admin in a bold-faced lie over this. She claimed they played a game there every single day. Well, I looked at the room list maintained by Case’s Ladder. It shows the game, the room name, the name of the league(s) claiming the room and the current League Admin, plus the date of their claim.

By clicking the league name and checking dates in their tournament calendar, I was able to see they had not played a successful game in ten days. So, of course, there are good Admins and bad ones. Please take each league as it presents itself and do not lump them all into one bad trash pile. I have been in many rooms with very GOOD leagues, and personally commended them when I see excellent behavior.

Say League A wants a KenoPop room for their fledgling group. Head Admin goes to the list and tries, in vain, to find a room not already claimed. Well, there aren’t any. It, like Hog Heaven, Canasta, Gin, Euchre, DCR, Yahtzee and several other games, is fully packed with AT LEAST one league per room. Some rooms have three or four leagues sharing.

Admin from League A has to then email the Admin of several leagues and hope to find one willing to share the room. I did this for Euchre and Canasta. NOT ONE Admin returned my message. Now imagine doing this for EVERY game you want to play in and NO ONE responds. That’s how it is in the popular games. Three leagues may be trying to get their claims in and may never bump into each other. They discover they are sharing when all three league names appear on the list on the same day, because Case’s sometimes gets a backlog.

Oh, then there’s the games that have duplicate room names! Like Lottso. My league had been put in the right room name but on the wrong tab. Whose idea was it to name rooms the same across all the tabs? BAD IDEA!!!

The ONLY way a league can have a room to itself is to run tournaments 8 hours a day every single day. This is why some leagues seem NEVER to leave a room. The biggest league in Case’s monopolizes at least two games, DCR and Yahtzee, by running a game every half hour 24 hours a day, just so they do not ever lose control of the room. So if there is “always” a league in a room, that is why. Smaller leagues simply cannot do this.

It sounds unfair, but if there’s a league that is ALWAYS is in a room, and you really cannot stand them, you’re better off finding a different room to play in. Because, lemme tell ya, that league isn’t going anywhere regardless how rude you are toward them.

Mute each other and there is instant peace.

Can I move my league into another room if we find hostility? – NO, you may not! Arbitrarily moving rooms – IS AGAINST CASE’S RULES! If a room is full or non-league players are hostile toward the league, you are NOT allowed to suddenly move to another room unless you find one that is unclaimed by another league and go about the entire claiming process all over again.

Even the “tournament” rooms are claimed, in what few games have them. So tournament rooms are useless to the leagues who haven’t claimed them. Five tournament rooms and 800 leagues and they’re not allowed to use them without obtaining prior permission from leagues already claiming, as outlined above. There is no system within Case’s (to my knowledge) that requires Admins respond to the requests of other Admins. They can (and do) deny they ever got an email.

There are some 800 leagues in Case’s Ladder with enough people in them to hold tournaments. [One host and four players are REQUIRED for an official game – if they start a game with a host and three players in the room and a “ghost” as the fourth player, they are holding a fraudulent game and should be reported to Case’s.]

And more leagues pop up every week as war happens and disgruntled players leave to make their own league. You show me ONE GAME that has 800 rooms. That only happens for two games a week – the badge games. Which brings me to the next topic I often see.

HOW does a league get a room? Does Pogo assign rooms? Pogo has absolutely NOTHING to do with it. Pogo has no idea what leagues play in what rooms except when reports start coming in during a fight. If a league player or td says Pogo gave them that room, he/she is either lying or grossly misinformed.

In order to claim a room, a league Admin checks Case’s list and tries DESPERATELY to find a room not already used. At this point, numerous of them are having to go to the Teen rooms to find something they can use. This causes it’s OWN problems, of course. Salty language in the teen rooms… An Admin’s nightmare.

Then the league must play a successful game on seven out of 14 days. Or one game a week for four consecutive weeks. THEN and ONLY THEN can they file with Case’s and claim the room.

They have to provide the ID number for each game played and the date on which it was played, which entails maintaining detailed calendars for what games have been played in which days, what rooms need how many more tournaments played, what games were dropped by missing a game and have to be started all over again. And which rooms were suddenly claimed five games in and now the league has to start ALL OVER AGAIN in another room because the newly claiming league doesn’t want to share. (sighs) I had to start over in KenoPop three times before successfully completing Case’s simple requirements.

Truly, it’s a nightmare and so much stress you would not believe it.

Leagues can quickly kill themselves by expanding too fast too soon. I’ve seen it happen and it happened to my league when I made the mistake of listening to people who didn’t know what it meant to run games and maintain 20 rooms with only two reliable hosts.

I mentioned before that there are different league systems. Case’s is one of the biggest, but there are at least two or three others I can name off the top of my head. If one of THOSE leagues is in your league’s room, there is NOTHING either of you can do but smile and make nice. Case’s will not be involved in the other league system. The other league system will not be involved with Case’s. I solved the problem in one room by setting a specific time each day and not holding them at any other time; and in another game by making our two leagues a coalition looking out for each other’s interests. Both worked out well.

Do I have to leave the room when a league comes in? ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! Don’t you DARE leave! You have every right to be in that room for as long as you want, regardless how league people may fuss. If anyone says you “have” to leave, hit that REPORT ABUSE button and report that person on the spot! Do NOT give in to bullying tactics. No league person, be they player, admin or host, is allowed to tell any player they have to leave. PERIOD! The only person they can tell to leave is someone within their own league who is coming in to cause trouble or who has been ejected from the game – but even that is sketchy.

The letter writer specifically asked about instances where non-league players claim to have reported her. Well, flat-out, if you’ve not done anything wrong, you’re never going to hear a thing about it. Heck, I used to get reported regularly for making a blackout in EW Bingo (before passing rooms came into existence).

If Pogo doesn’t see a “crime” they’re not going to bother with it beyond the initial report. Your best course of action is to simply mute the person. NEVER get into back and forth arguments with non-league people! EVER! Just mute them and go on with your game.

You, too, have every right to be there and play your tournaments. If you know you’re not doing anything wrong, don’t worry about it. Do your best to make peace. If peace cannot be had, MUTE ‘EM and let them speak to the wind!

In closing, I will voice my own concern. All of this should already be well-known by the Head Admin of Love Pogo’s league. I’m curious as to why she had to ask you rather than going to her own league Admin for the answers.

(Can you guess WHY I’m) NO LONGER A LEAGUE ADMIN!

Dear Readers,

Don’t forget to send in your acronyms for the annual “Pogo Player’s Guide to Netspeak column for next week!

Is there an acronym you see but don’t know what it means? Send it in! We’ll see if we can get an answer. Also, if you’re a power chatter with some time to burn, take a look at the list and let us know if there’s anything on the list that doesn’t really need to be there.

Thanks so much and have a delightful weekend!

Ms. Netiquette

Have an etiquette question for Ms. Netiquette? Email msnetiquette@pogo.com

Want to chat with others about this column? Visit the Pogo Forums!